I was thrilled to be invited to join Loraine Ballard Morrill on her iHeartRadio show, where she generously called me a “travel guru” during our conversation about my memoir, Brave-ish: One Breakup, Six Continents, and Feeling Fearless After Fifty. Loraine, who describes herself as “travel-phobic,” and I dove into a lively discussion about how even the most hesitant travelers can embrace their own version of bravery.
Being “brave-ish” doesn’t mean having no fear—it’s about finding the courage to take the first step outside your comfort zone. We talked about the transformative power of travel and how small moments of bravery, like trying something new or stepping into the unknown, can open up a world of possibilities.
Loraine’s dedication to empowering her community through media resonates deeply with my belief in the connections and growth that come from adventure. Together, we explored how everyone, no matter where they are on their journey, can channel their inner travel guru and discover a braver, more adventurous version of themselves.
What’s Going On: Lisa Niver, Travel Expert
August 3, 2024 • 28 mins
Loraine: To say that I’m travel phobic might be going too far – but it’s true that I haven’t scheduled a real vacation since my mini honeymoon almost four years ago Well I’m taking the plunge and going abroad for a whole week I speak to Travel guru, Lisa Niver, who is celebrated for inspiring others to seek out new experiences and embrace the transformative power of travel.
LISTEN starting at 17:24 to hear Loraine and Lisa:
Loraine Ballard Morrill(00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to What’s going on? A show
about making a difference in our lives and our communities.
I’m Lorraine Ballad Marl. To say that I’m travel phobic
might be going a little too far, but it is
true that I haven’t scheduled a real vacation since my
mini honeymoon almost four years ago. Well, I’m taking the
plunge and going abroad for a whole week.
I speak to travel guru Lisa Niver, who believes traveling abroad is
not only about going places, but can also be a
tremendous tool for personal growth.
Loraine(17:24):
You’re listening to What’s Going On. I am now going
to reveal something very personal about myself, and that is
that I have a fear of traveling. Now, this fear
of traveling has kept me from doing the kind of
traveling that I’ve always wanted to do. But I broke
that terrible habit of mine of avoiding travel and I
actually booked a vacation to Spain. And so it’s so
appropriate that today I’m going to be speaking with a
world traveler. Her name is Lisa Niver. She has written
a memoir called Brave-ish :One Breakup, Six Continents and Feeling
Fearless after Fifty I can so identify with that. And
also she is the host of an award winning podcast
called Make your Own Map.
Well, Lisa, boy, this is
really on time because I literally pushed the button to
click and make it all happen last week. So Brave-ish,
I guess I feel like I am a little bit brave-ish,
but you, in fact are an award winning travel expert
and author and adventurer, and you wrote a book that
has a title that I totally identify with. So tell
us more about how this came to be.
LISA(18:29):
Thank you so much. I’m so honored to be here speaking with you, and
I am really so thrilled for you that you’re going
to Spain. You’re going to have the best time.
I get a lot of pushback on the title, Brave-ish, that
my best friend and my mom say that I am not brave-ish,
I am very brave.
I think the title really speaks to more
people since we all have fears. Most of us want
something –like you always wanted to travel more, maybe someone
wants to change their job. And I think brave-ish really
invites people to try something new. It’s often hard
(19:06):
as adults to do something new and not feel competent.
We’re not used to feeling uncertain. Will
I be able to read the signs to find my train in Madrid?
Will I get in the right airport line? Will
I make it? And that fear keeps us from doing stuff,
And for myself, when I was getting divorced and starting
my life again. I felt so ashamed and embarrassed. It
(19:29):
was so traumatic. And that’s how I started doing these challenges,
which is the bulk of the book. I did fifty
dares before I turned fifty.
Loraine(19:37):
Wow. Well, you know that’s the thing that sometimes we
get stuck in a rut. We’re used to our routine.
For me, I have a job that I love. I
could work till I drop. But I have
come to realize that there is more to life than work.
As much as I love my work, and the travel
(19:57):
is a very unique way of taking yourself out of
your comfort zone right and opening up a possibility that
perhaps you weren’t aware of before.
Tell us what it
is about travel and putting yourself in these situations that
are so unfamiliar that can really open up your heart
and your soul and your life.
LISA (20:18):
For me, being in a new place,
you have the opportunity to reimagine yourself. When
you go to the same coffee shop and you go
to the same restaurant, and you do the same thing
all the time, you often act the same way.
When I was getting divorced, someone said
to me, you can’t do something new in an old way,
and it gives you the opportunity to stretch, even if
(20:41):
you aren’t ready to go to another continent like you
are go to Spain. If you commute home and you drive on a
different street, it can make a difference to your brain
that you’re doing something new and you might find out
(21:02):
that one street over from the way you normally go.
Or if you’re on the subway and you get off
one stop earlier and walk around and go to a
different restaurant, who knows.
(21:11):
You might sit next to someone new who becomes a
new friend, or you might try
a food you never tried.
(21:15):
You might go to a Vietnamese restaurant and decide, oh,
my gosh, I’m going to go to Vietnam. It
gives you the opportunity to reconfigure your brain and your
neurons and your ideas.
The other
thing I always tell people is you don’t have to
get on a plane to have an adventure. You can have an
adventure in your home city.
I always recommend people take a cooking class.
It’s very low entry to trying something new, especially if you love
Italian food, take Italian class, or you
love sushi, take a sushi rolling class.
(21:43):
They’re not that expensive.
You get to eat, and generally you meet people.
Everybody’s having fun and talking
and it’s something everybody, for
the most part is pretty good at. Everybody eats.
Loraine(21:55):
So it has been proven from a research standpoint that
doing something new, whether it’s every day or every week
or once a year or whatever, whatever it is that
you decide to do that’s new that you’ve never done before,
does open up your neural pathways and they allow you
to think differently and to open up your idea of
(22:17):
what is possible. I remember reading about Shonda Rhimes and
she wrote this wonderful book called The Year of Saying Yes.
And she is someone who, believe it or not, is
very shy, and I can say that for me too,
that I’m a little bit on the shy side. But
I find that when I decide to say yes for
things that scare me to death, like going to Spain,
(22:37):
for instance, that a whole bunch of things open up.
And it is really about opening up your life to possibility.
Lisa(22:45):
I love that you brought up her book because that book,
The Year of Yes is one of the reasons that
I did my project. I didn’t think I could do it.
And so that book and then your friend LuAnn
Cahn’s book, I Dare Me. She did 365 things, helped me
consider doing fifty things, I thought
I can’t do fifty. I can’t do fifty.
And my friend told me, it’s only one
a week, and Luanne did one every day.
Loraine(23:12):
She did. I did some of those with her. Let
me ask you this. So, having done what you’ve done,
maybe it wasn’t every day, but you did travel to
one hundred countries, and you’ve done a lot
of things that perhaps you hadn’t thought of doing before
you embarked on this journey. What has it done for you?
How has it changed you?
Lisa(23:33):
The most incredible thing is it really did
change me. One of the things I noticed doing the fifty things,
but much more I noticed writing the book about doing
the fifty things was that initially, no matter what the
challenge was, I said, no, someone would recommend something and
I said absolutely, not. I’m scared. I don’t like it.
I am afraid. Bad things happen to me. No.
And
then most of the time someone would say, “Isn’t that
the whole point of your project?”
And I said, please,
don’t use my words against me. But as I got
towards the end, and certainly after the whole fifty things process,
(24:16):
someone recommended something to me and I didn’t hesitate. I
thought I definitely want to do that.
And they’re said you’re so brave.
and I thought about it.
Normally in my life, I’ve been very hesitant
about things that seem different or challenging. It’s funny.
I’m a travel writer, I’m a
travel expert. I’m on TV about travel, but a lot
of times I get nervous! Am I going to
miss my plane? Did I pack the right things?
People think that just because you’re good
at doing something means
it never bothers you. But I think that’s really a
mistake that it keeps people from doing what other people
are doing. They worry that someone else is better at it.
Who cares — be bad at it? Take an extra suitcase?
What’s going to happen.
Loraine(24:57):
Life has certainly opened up for you. Now
you have this podcast that’s award-winning,
You’ve been on television.
You are a storyteller, and you’ve been able to share
your journey and to inspire others. How do people find
out more about what you do? Get a copy of
the book, find out about your podcast, tell us all
about that.
Lisa(25:19):
Thank you so much.
One way people find me is all across social media.
Find me at @LisaNiver (Niver like Diver)
and the book is available online and at all bookstores.
I just had an
event at the Barnes and Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles.
I’ve had an event in Philadelphia at the Penn Bookstore.
I always recommend to people go into your local bookstore and
ask them to order the book if they don’t have it.
It’s available through Simon and Schuster, and
any bookstore can order it.
It’s always good to support your local bookstore, but you
can find my book, BRAVE-ish, at Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Walmart, Target.
My podcast is called: “Make your own map.”
You can find it on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, iHeart,
or wherever you find podcasts.
BOOK: BRAVE-ish
WEBSITE: LisaNiver.com
TRAVEL WEBSITE: WeSaidGoTravel.com
CLASS: Travel Writer 101
Loraine(26:26):
I love it. I’ll be checking that out as I
embark on my very scary but very exciting trip to
Spain in a couple of weeks and looking forward to it.
You inspired me. Sometimes you
just have to go for it. You have to step
out on thin air and see what happens, and sometimes
something magical happens.
Lisa(26:50):
I think magical things will happen for you. And I
also think we need to normalize that being afraid or
being concerned is information and we need to look at
that information and decide how are we going to respond
to it. So, for myself, when I’m traveling
If I’m going to get in late the first night,
I make sure I know how am I going to
travel from the airport to the hotel. Do they have
a car service? Sometimes I change my flight so I
arrive when it’s daylight because that makes me feel less nervous.
Those are the things that can
really make a difference. A friend of mine doesn’t necessarily want to go
out at night alone. So she books a tour. She’ll book a food tour or a
city tour at night, and then she’s not alone. And
I thought that was really bright.
Loraine(27:44):
I love that. All right, I’m taking all of those
suggestions and incorporating them into my trip to Spain. Lisa,
I am so delighted to speak with you.
Award-winning travel expert, author, adventurer, known for her vibrant storytelling,
which you can hear on her podcast Make your Own Map,
and read about in Brave-ish, her memoir.
(28:05):
You can check her out
at LisaNiver.com.
Thank you so much.
Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Loraine Ballard.
I’m Loraine Ballard Morel and I stand for service to
our community and media that empowers. What will you stand for?
You’ve been listening to WHAT’s GOING ON!
Loraine and I met through LuAnn Cahn, author of I DARE ME, which inspired my book, BRAVE-ish in Philadelphia at a the Living Beyond Breast Cancer Gala.
